Curse

snaek · Jul 30, 2009, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by chocobo1

The problem is if you buff pets, there just going to get even more overpowered in HB (inb4 lolHB).

bm's in hb use heal as one, and thus will likely be unaffected if charm animal doubled as a pet res...also, charm animal is a 10s cast time lolz if it went unchanged...

IronSheik · Jul 30, 2009, 04:27 AM // 04:27

IMO only reason a pet/beast mastery is on RaO bar is to activate it, therefore, pets suck.

**Marty Silverblade** · Jul 30, 2009, 06:24 AM // 06:24

There doesn't seem to be any good reason to run a beastmaster build over a full marks build, so /signed. It's disappointing to see an entire skill branch (and game function, basically) be neglected.

Tenebrae · Jul 30, 2009, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

There doesn't seem to be any good reason to run a beastmaster build over a full marks build, so /signed. It's disappointing to see an entire skill branch (and game function, basically) be neglected.

Totally right , if BM skills were party wide at least we could see 2+ Bmasters coordinate and do decent damage + self defense . The att point split part is still there but hey , thats somethin .

M @ T · Jul 30, 2009, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubafeast

If you think about it, MM minions could be considered "pets" and you can create minions with 1 skill slot and can configure their level with the attributes, not need to level them up :-/

Minions die of degen, so you need Blood of the Master or Heal Area or whatever. Meaning you need 2 slots again, unless you rrun some gimmick-diablo2-corpse-explosion-kind-of-thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubafeast

Other nice "pets" for PvE at least are Asuran summoning skills and Assassin Support, and they take only 1 skill slot.

Combine Assassin Promise with Assassin Support and you could have multiple assassins.

They last a few seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

There doesn't seem to be any good reason to run a beastmaster build over a full marks build, so /signed. It's disappointing to see an entire skill branch (and game function, basically) be neglected.

Rangers in general are fine. You got RaO and also I've seen 1 high end guild running 2 beast mastery rangers with a very high damage output and pressure too.

There's more important classes that need buffs like the Dervish and War's Tactics IMO.

IronSheik · Jul 30, 2009, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by M @ T

They last a few seconds.
Rangers in general are fine. You got RaO and also I've seen 1 high end guild running 2 beast mastery rangers with a very high damage output and pressure too.

The sins only need to last a few seconds, you get out one-two per enemy that deal 200 damage plus and divert attention from the enemy, and they're instantly in frontline making enemies use PBAoE, and unless you have strike as one and getting a 10 recharge on skills, pets can't do that

And what guild was this? HA? GvG?

M @ T · Jul 30, 2009, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

The sins only need to last a few seconds, you get out one-two per enemy that deal 200 damage plus and divert attention from the enemy, and they're instantly in frontline making enemies use PBAoE, and unless you have strike as one and getting a 10 recharge on skills, pets can't do that

And what guild was this? HA? GvG?

Ye, I won't disagree with you about the sins. They spike down, they are not meant to tank like minions or even pets. Thing is pets and minions are generally better in PvE IMO. In PvP, well, minion factory is long dead(

). Pets are still used but I will agree mostly in gimmick builds.

About the guild I mentioned, I honestly don't remember the name but it was among the first 100. That was in GvG as you can imagine, and the rangers were R/P with these skills from what I remember:

Barbed Spear
Apply poison
Call of Protection
Otyugh's Cry
Symbiotic Bond
Enraged Lunge
Charm Animal(apparently)
Res sig

I think that was their build, only 1 of the 2 might have had Revive Animal.

That's all I remember tbh. The did pressure well with degen and damage apparently(spamming Enraged Lunge which was unblockable), they could spike(well almost, cause spiking with pets ain't that easy) and it was close to impossible to kill their pets from the + armor and damage reduction

.

EDIT: They won too

Tenebrae · Jul 30, 2009, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by M @ T

Thing is pets and minions are generally better in PvE IMO. In PvP, well, minion factory is long dead(

). Pets are still used but I will agree mostly in gimmick builds.

Really ? i guess you talk about NM because HM is not fun when your pet can be 3 hitted to death by a lvl 28 or something else you dont see coming because all pets are melee ( lol @ that , they should have made some ranged ) and suddenly something explodes and bam 3-6 secs of skill blackout.

The thing is that BM should work in a way that you deal less damage with your weapon ( pretty obvious , att points split ) and your pet should do decent damage with little skills. Hell , they should have a mini skill bar ( with 2-4 skills ) and THAT would be fun .

PD: Dont bring that "uh that would be overpowered" up because we are talking about PvE only

MithranArkanere · Jul 30, 2009, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Even if in PvP the do roughly fine, in PvE they are barely a curiosity.

The only reason to bring them is for fun, and bringing a pet can be frustrating sometimes, removing such fun.

BrettM · Jul 30, 2009, 02:10 PM // 14:10

I run a ranger character that has always been a full-bore beastmaster, and I love it. Pets are surprisingly robust even in HM with a buff or two (Otyugh's Cry, Call of Protection), and I don't experience three-hit kills very often.

But some PvE pet buffs are definitely in order. I don't want to see pets turned into some kind of autonomous death machines, as I hear they are in WoW. And I don't want them to basically be an additional hero on the team. But a pet should be an effective weapon when a ranger chooses to use it instead of a bow. Things to be fixed:

1. The delays before attack (2 sec to start moving, time to run to the foe, another 2 sec staring at the foe before attacking -- by which time the foe is probably elsewhere ...) are horrible, and half the time the team has the targeted foe down before my pet gets anywhere near. Gah.

2. The delays after the foe goes down. A hero or henchie or minion or summon will stay in the battle and pick another foe, even if you don't call another target. A pet will always start running back to you. Now the pet has to realize you're attacking another foe (stop running, stare at you for 2 sec), turn around, run back to the battle, stare at the new foe for 2 sec, etc. By which time the team has the new foe down. Gah.

3. The autoattack damage of a pet is absolutely pathetic. I can see why you would not want high autoattack damage in a hybrid build where it would combine with weapon damage to turn rangers into super death dealers. But something must be done for serious beastmaster builds where the pet IS your weapon. I carry a +20e staff and spam pet attacks like crazy because that is the only way I can get respectable amounts of damage out of a pet. I'm not saying that a pet should be able to do warrior levels of autoattack damage, but I am not seeing anything near the numbers listed on the wiki for pet damage even running at 16 Beast Mastery. Maybe add some armor penetration scaled with Beast Mastery? Something.

4. It would be nice if the ranger could also do the same things with a pet as with a bow, including reliable interrupts and AoE attacks. Any dervish can hit more than one foe at once on autoattack. Why shouldn't pets at least have an effective attack skill or call for doing the same? Perhaps one could even make certain preparations work with a pet. (Choking Gas? Any skunk can do it!

)

Given fixes in those areas, I wouldn't even care about bar compression by changing Charm Animal.

Dahl · Jul 30, 2009, 02:19 PM // 14:19

People need to learn the difference between underpowered and underused.

Beast mastery is MENACINGLY overpowered, but people are too dumb to come up with builds for it. In fact, my BM ranger uses BM heroes, and its damage is ridiculous. You ever seen a destroyer go down in less than 2 seconds?

My point is: get smarter, and don't complain.

Dahl · Jul 30, 2009, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

I run a ranger character that has always been a full-bore beastmaster, and I love it. Pets are surprisingly robust even in HM with a buff or two (Otyugh's Cry, Call of Protection), and I don't experience three-hit kills very often.

But some PvE pet buffs are definitely in order. I don't want to see pets turned into some kind of autonomous death machines, as I hear they are in WoW. And I don't want them to basically be an additional hero on the team. But a pet should be an effective weapon when a ranger chooses to use it instead of a bow. Things to be fixed:

1. The delays before attack (2 sec to start moving, time to run to the foe, another 2 sec staring at the foe before attacking -- by which time the foe is probably elsewhere ...) are horrible, and half the time the team has the targeted foe down before my pet gets anywhere near. Gah.

2. The delays after the foe goes down. A hero or henchie or minion or summon will stay in the battle and pick another foe, even if you don't call another target. A pet will always start running back to you. Now the pet has to realize you're attacking another foe (stop running, stare at you for 2 sec), turn around, run back to the battle, stare at the new foe for 2 sec, etc. By which time the team has the new foe down. Gah.

3. The autoattack damage of a pet is absolutely pathetic. I can see why you would not want high autoattack damage in a hybrid build where it would combine with weapon damage to turn rangers into super death dealers. But something must be done for serious beastmaster builds where the pet IS your weapon. I carry a +20e staff and spam pet attacks like crazy because that is the only way I can get respectable amounts of damage out of a pet. I'm not saying that a pet should be able to do warrior levels of autoattack damage, but I am not seeing anything near the numbers listed on the wiki for pet damage even running at 16 Beast Mastery. Maybe add some armor penetration scaled with Beast Mastery? Something.

4. It would be nice if the ranger could also do the same things with a pet as with a bow, including reliable interrupts and AoE attacks. Any dervish can hit more than one foe at once on autoattack. Why shouldn't pets at least have an effective attack skill or call for doing the same? Perhaps one could even make certain preparations work with a pet. (Choking Gas? Any skunk can do it!

)

Given fixes in those areas, I wouldn't even care about bar compression by changing Charm Animal.

I do agree with the pausing. I don't see why they can't just function like heroes. Their AI is terrible. At least we have some form of control now, it was pretty annoying before we got that pet panel.

Pets in GW are astronomically stronger than pets in WoW though, the only difference is you surrender your bow skills here and not in wow.

Pets do not need buffs of any kind. They don't need armor, they don't need damage. They need a player behind the screen who knows how to make builds. My beastmaster is packing 110+ damage per second (tested against the master at balthazar temple)

Shasgaliel · Jul 30, 2009, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

People need to learn the difference between underpowered and underused.

QFT. Thread win. I really suck on making builds and even I was able to cope in HM with a pet on a... warrior.

Phoenix Tears · Jul 30, 2009, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Lol people talking about Beastmasters here...GW has no Beastmasters...what GW has are Dompteurs without whips...so I would call Rangers that use pets...

because a real Beastmaster handles more than 1 single pet at the same time !! at least 3 different pets.

Ever seen anyone of you any kind of beastmaster series on TV??? I doubt so...
In every series, be it real like or cartoon, the Beastmaster controls 3 or more Animals at the same time. (lion, falcon, 2 mermelins are mostly standard)
-------

Pet system is compared to the undeads and Spirits of the other Classes shit...
I don't understand, what is so hard about the pet system to fix, that so more Pets the rangers uses, so lesser will be the max level of pets as balancing method...

1-2 Pets: Max Level 20
3-4 Pets: Max Level 17
5-6 Pets: Max Level 15

Also, so more pets u take with you, so lesser should be the strength and the defense of each single pet.

1-2 pets: 100% Strength + Defense
3-4 pets: 80% Strength + Defense from original maximum
5-6 pets: 60% Strength + Defense from original maximum

this and better Beastmastery-Skills, each Pet controlable like a Hero with its own Skill bars.... the beastmastery-skills, which are on the player itself should be merely only Healing & Support-Skills for the pets...no attack skills ...the attack skills belong all to the Pet-Skillbars then.

Also no Skills should be required to have the Pets within you..the Pet should be a basic feature, which should be ever at the side of the Ranger, regardless of the Skill Build!!! The Build should only determine, how much of the maximum 6 Pets should be the player allowed to take with...

that now just as example for fixing the problems for GW1, but regardless, I hope GW2 will receive a much better thought out Pet-System, which isnt so lame, like the old one then. Pet should be only not automatically ever at the side of the player, if the player personally wants it so by deactivating the Pet at the Characters Equipment-Menu, where Ranger-characters should have the Extra-Option like deactivating the Cape or the Head Gear to deactivate the Pet... btw this option will naturaly appear, if a non Main Ranger-Character has Ranger as secondary class...

Everythign's just a matter of Gameplay-Design and atm die Pet-System is one of GW's bad designs, which could have been made alot better...and more funnier to play

Arkantos · Jul 30, 2009, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Phoenix Tears....did you just suggest that a ranger can have 5-6 level 15 pets?

really?

Winterclaw · Jul 30, 2009, 06:32 PM // 18:32

I think he wants rangers to be more like minon masters. :\

Arghore · Jul 30, 2009, 07:06 PM // 19:06

/Signed

for a change of Charm Animal, aslong as the health it resses with is very low, so it doesn't unbalance PvP to much, then freeing up one slot will allready make a load of difference to being able to make a decent BM build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

Charm Animal.
10e 10c 10r
Charm target animal. Once charmed, your animal companion will travel with you whenever you have Charm Animal equipped. You cannot charm an animal that is more than 4 levels above you. If your animal companion is dead, this skill activates in two seconds and your pet is returned to life with 5...15 % health.

For some reason i remember this same discussion from another thread not to long ago

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3041676

BrettM · Jul 30, 2009, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

I think he wants rangers to be more like minon masters. :\

Now that would be seriously cool, especially if they added giant ferrets to the game. Go, my furry army, go! (Actually, I just want a giant ferret. Just one would be fine, instead of an army. Is that too much to ask?

)

Lishy · Jul 30, 2009, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

My beastmaster is packing 110+ damage per second (tested against the master at balthazar temple)

Ping or I don't believe you. Only way I can see have that much damage output is enraged lunge combined with shouts for your pets such as feral aggression. Even then, enraged lunge has a recharge of 5 and that downtime hurts a lot since your bar would consist of mainly only buffs with only 1 or 2 attack skills.

Tenebrae · Jul 30, 2009, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Ping or I don't believe you. Only way I can see have that much damage output is enraged lunge combined with shouts for your pets such as feral aggression. Even then, enraged lunge has a recharge of 5 and that downtime hurts a lot since your bar would consist of mainly only buffs with only 1 or 2 attack skills.

Yeah , cheap words over there. He came up strong with those "People need to learn the difference between underpowered and underused." and "My point is: get smarter, and don't complain. " . Lets see if he has some screens to back that up

( yes , wanna see lvl 30 destroyers die in 2 secs and builds to do it ).